WEBVTT

00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:01.160
My name is Rupay Dahm,

00:00:01.160 --> 00:00:04.160
a specialist solicitor in labour law
and I am representing

00:00:04.920 --> 00:00:08.793
a case against
36 Stage XL GmbH.

00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:11.800
They provide
event technology,

00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.000
are involved in major concerts
such as Marilyn Manson

00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.360
they do the
behind-the-scenes work,

00:00:18.413 --> 00:00:20.719
the so-called
stage hands.

00:00:20.753 --> 00:00:22.376
And the case
I’m representing.

00:00:22.400 --> 00:00:25.400
So the
problem is,

00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:29.680
they’re only ever
hired on a daily basis

00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.806
and then, if they
have twenty assignments a year,

00:00:33.853 --> 00:00:38.580
that makes twenty fixed-term
contracts they have.

00:00:38.800 --> 00:00:42.320
And in between, and even
during the contract

00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:45.320
you are not entitled to continued pay
if you are ill.

00:00:45.413 --> 00:00:47.600
You have no
entitlement to holiday leave,

00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:49.240
that is, to
paid holiday leave.

00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:52.840
This is an employment relationship 
like in the German Empire,

00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.480
where I simply have no protection
and that is the problem.

00:00:58.040 --> 00:01:00.766
The employer
invokes

00:01:01.946 --> 00:01:06.126
a social law construct
of ‘non-permanent employment’.

00:01:06.593 --> 00:01:08.653
In reality, these are
zero-hours contracts.

00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.840
So I have a
framework contract,

00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.840
where, in principle,

00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.440
I have zero hours of regular
working time,

00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:21.406
so I don’t have any
regular working hours,

00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.960
but people are
always booked for individual assignments.

00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:28.920
And the employer’s argument is
that they can, after all, turn down jobs.

00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:31.920
That means it’s
entirely voluntary

00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:34.346
and that’s why

00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:37.000
there isn’t one.

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.120
So, according to

00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:39.240
the employer’s view

00:01:39.240 --> 00:01:41.120
there is no permanent
employment relationship,

00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:44.520
even though people may work 
there for a year or two years,

00:01:44.520 --> 00:01:49.173
and carry out tasks that 
constitute a permanent role.

00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:53.040
So, just like in any other
temporary employment agency

00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.800
or events or
catering or something like that.

00:01:56.800 --> 00:02:00.920
So, as is always the case in the industry,
you have different events

00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.680
and it’s not a
nine-to-five job.

00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:09.840
The employer exploits a
grey area because they say,

00:02:10.480 --> 00:02:13.280
he doesn’t actually oblige people
to take on certain shifts,

00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.360
but that it’s voluntary.
And that’s a scam,

00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.680
we’ve seen it before
with all those

00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:20.560
bike couriers or

00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.160
those food
delivery people,

00:02:23.160 --> 00:02:26.160
where it all works
via an app,

00:02:26.220 --> 00:02:29.420
where they can accept
or decline jobs.

00:02:29.640 --> 00:02:33.680
And ue to this freedom toi decline
the key feature that typically

00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:39.073
exists in an employment relationship, that
I receive instructions from the employer,

00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.440
- that’s simply
bypassed.

00:02:41.553 --> 00:02:45.920
And because of that, they act as if
it weren’t an employment relationship.

00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:51.040
So at least not
between assignments,

00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:56.053
and the employer takes
advantage of that,

00:02:56.153 --> 00:02:59.400
to save costs
and to keep people

00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:02.560
in such a state of
absolute uncertainty.

00:03:04.440 --> 00:03:07.920
And the case law on this,
is lagging behind.

00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:10.920
So this is just

00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.680
a difficult
area of law.

00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.680
And the employer exploits
this uncertainty,

00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:20.120
which, in my view,
is illegal,

00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.720
is that time and again
these are temporary contracts,

00:03:23.720 --> 00:03:27.480
which, however, do not have any 
justification for being temporary

00:03:28.200 --> 00:03:32.640
That means, actually, they ought 
to be on permanent contracts.

00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:36.800
But they
aren’t.

00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.600
And that
just goes to show

00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:42.600
the difference
compared to other employers,

00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:44.673
who work in a similar
way,

00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:46.499
but who have much better
working conditions.

00:03:46.552 --> 00:03:48.319
That they hire people 
on a permanent basis.

00:03:48.392 --> 00:03:51.686
In any traditional temp agency,
where you do catering jobs or the like,

00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.840
you basically have a permanent
position with a working time account

00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.840
with, for example,
on-call work or the like,

00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:02.320
where you can simply accept
or decline assignments.

00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:03.920
But you have
a basic income

00:04:03.920 --> 00:04:07.440
and you are permanently covered 
by social security; you have holidays,

00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:13.040
holiday entitlement and continued pay
in the event of illness, etc., so simply

00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:16.880
that basic social security,
which under employment law

00:04:16.880 --> 00:04:18.280
you’re actually supposed to have.

00:04:18.280 --> 00:04:21.640
And with Stage XL,
that’s not the case,

00:04:21.640 --> 00:04:24.880
they simply avoid that
through this odd contract structure,

00:04:25.400 --> 00:04:28.080
which, however, actually constitute 
institutional abuse of the law.

00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:31.866
So because they keep hiring people 
of these temporary contracts,

00:04:32.200 --> 00:04:35.120
for a task that is, however,
a permanent function of the company,

00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:38.579
that is actually
not permitted.

00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.766
I don’t see politicians
doing anything about it,

00:04:54.833 --> 00:04:57.800
that these working conditions
at food delivery companies

00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:00.960
or for all these
precarious workers,

00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.973
that they’re
doing anything about it.

00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:05.840
The trade unions
are trying to do something about it,

00:05:05.840 --> 00:05:08.840
but it’s just very difficult to
organise people.

00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:10.600
It’s also
hardly possible,

00:05:10.726 --> 00:05:14.640
you can’t exactly
set up a works council,

00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:17.640
because people are only ever
employed for a few days.

00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.160
That is, of course,
also a clever strategy,

00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.160
to avoid co-determination
.

00:05:23.379 --> 00:05:26.259
That’s why it’s incredibly 
difficult to get to grips with it,

00:05:26.286 --> 00:05:28.879
and politicians are just
standing by and doing nothing.

00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:33.746
So I don’t see any
visible improvements there.

00:05:33.846 --> 00:05:37.380
I’m curious to  see what the 
labour court has to say about this.

00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:40.080
From our point of view, this is
inadmissible and constitutes

00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.700
an institutional
abuse of the law,

00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:46.240
Because

00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.080
because this type
of time limit

00:05:49.080 --> 00:05:52.080
is actually not
permissible.

00:05:53.053 --> 00:05:56.373
I am curious to see what the 
labour court will say about this.